Wendell Berry is an essayist, novelist, poet, farmer, and cultural critic. He is the author of more than 40 books, including: Blessed Are The Peacemakers, Hannah Coulter, Fidelity, Home Economics, Citizens Dissent, and Sex, Economy, Freedom, and Community: Eight Essays.
Berry has farmed a hillside in his native Henry County, Kentucky for 40 years. He has received numerous awards including: The Aiken Taylor Award for poetry, the T.S. Eliot Award, and the John Hay Award of the Orion Society.
His new book The Way of Ignorance was recently published by Shoemaker and Hoard. I reached Berry in Port Royal, Kentucky.
Gerry McCarthy: In the chapter "Quantity Vs Form" in The Way of Ignorance you write that: "We seem to be living now with the single-experience expectation that there should and will always be more of everything, including 'life expectancy.' This insatiable desire for more is the result of an overwhelming sense of incompleteness, which is the result of the insatiable desire for more. This is the wheel of death. It is the revolving of this wheel that now drives technological progress. The more superficial and unsatisfying our lives become the faster we need to progress. When you are skating on thin ice, speed up." Can you talk to me about this? Where is this overwhelming sense of incompleteness coming from? Are we being socialized by the commercial culture to feel this way? Can we change?
Wendell Berry: I think the sense of incompleteness is induced by what you are calling "the commercial culture." This culture is now constantly suggesting to us that whatever we have is not good enough, or that we will never be happy until we have a little more or a different version of this or that. Unless we buy this, we will be perceived as ugly. Unless we buy that, we will be perceived as ignorant. Unless we buy something else, we will remain unpopular. Such propositions are hell for all who believe them, and of course they are highly profitable for those who make the propositions. Can we change? Well, we changed into the selfish, self-doubting, gullible creatures that we are, and I suppose that means we can change into better creatures if we have the will to do so.
GM: I enjoyed your "Letter to Daniel Kemmis" on the fate and fortune of the Democratic Party. You write about some of the things a political party worthy of our respect and votes would have to speak for. Among other things you explain that: "It will honor the idea of vocation: that young people should find the work to which they are called or are naturally suited, and, having found it, should be able to devote their lives to it." If a political candidate spoke this way today --do you think his words would resonate with the wider public? Why don't we hear the word "vocation" used much anymore?
WB: I think that political candidates who wish to stop being political whores are going to have to start telling the truth whether it resonates with the wiser public or not. We don't hear the word "vocation" much anymore, because we now think of all workers as "units" in an undifferentiated mass known as "the work force" or the "labor pool." These people are regarded as the potential beneficiaries of "job creation." That means that they are regarded as the interchangeable parts of a production machine. To the theorists of "job creation" it simply doesn't matter where people live or what they do. What their vocation may be is simply not a matter of concern.
GM: In the same chapter --you explain that: "'Me too' is not an adequate response to economic globalization, the war in Iraq, 'toughness,' etc. The first responsibility of a candidate is not to win an election but to respond intelligently to the issues, even at the cost of losing." How does a priority on winning debase public dialogue?
WB: The absolute priority that many candidates give to winning elections is, in fact, opposed to the possibility of an authentic public dialogue. Instead of defining and arguing the issues in good faith, the candidate who fears only to lose deals in slogans and in sensational distractions such as homosexual marriage, the display of the Ten Commandments in government buildings, and flag burning. Democracy gives a certain authorization to this sort of idiocy, and is obliged to tolerate it. But if democracy is to survive it must also sponsor an authentic public discussion of real issues.
GM: Early in The Way of Ignorance you write that: "The human norm, as established by Christ (and others), is love even for enemies, forgiveness, neighborliness, and peace. It is therefore troubling that members of the present administration, while making much of their commitment to Christ, are insisting on the normality of hatred, greed, revenge, and unremitting war." Do you think more Americans are coming to a fuller realization of this hypocrisy?
WB: I don't know. I hope so. Eventually, of course, hypocrisy undoes itself. It is inherently comic, because sooner or later one's talk will be either supported or contradicted by one's acts.
GM: In the book you explain that: "Since World War II we have changed rapidly from a country owned by many people to a country owned by a few. This has been explicitly the program of some administrations, including that of Mr. Bush. We need an administration that is opposed to such a program. This country should not be entirely owned and run by the great corporations." Are you hopeful that we might see an administration like this in 2008?
WB: If one has an authentic idea of what is good, then one's hopes are well founded and well furnished with reasons. Of course, I hope for an improvement in 2008, but that is not a prediction. Hope is not authenticated by the expectation or guarantee of an outcome. It is authenticated by its good reasons.
GM: Where do you see signs of hope today?
WB: Hope is authenticated by examples, by things achieved that are demonstrably good. For those who want to find them, and who will trouble to look for them, there are working examples of good farming, good forestry, good professional practice, good practice of neighborliness, and even good political practice by politicians. We know that improvements can be made, because people in significant numbers all over the world are making them.
Gerry McCarthy is Editor of The Social Edge.
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